Bestselling author Peter Wohlleben, talks plant rights, fruit fly dreams, scientists in denial and animals in love with Skaana (@skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung). The German eco-philosopher shares the secret life of trees, the hidden life of animals and the responsibilities of humans.

“We have to bring more emotions into the process and the discussions about environmental things and climate change. Because when we just discuss the numbers, it’s emotionally so far away. It doesn’t touch your heart, just your mind.”

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“We have brothers and sisters in nature,” says German author Peter Wohlleben in a recent interview with Skaana podcast host Mark Leiren-Young. “For many people, that’s a problem because it disturbs business. It disturbs daily life because you have to look at what you have on your plate, you have to look at what you buy and so on.”

Wohlleben is the author of multiple best-selling books documenting the rich inner lives of plants and animals, including 2016’s The Hidden Life of Trees. Through his work, he has become an advocate for recognizing the rights of the natural world. He urges people to look at animals and plants as more than a collection of specimens and potential products.