Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung) talks sharks, Sharkwater (@teamsharkwater) and politics with Joseph Planta (@Planta) on a special shared episode with Planta On the Line @TheCommentary.ca


Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.

Support Our Guest

Books on Amazon and Classes

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

Show notes:

00:21 Introduction
2:51 Joseph Planta introduces Mark Leiren-Young.
4:00 Why Sharks Forever is dedicated to Rob Stewart and meeting Rob in Barcelona
10:45 Why I call sharks “the perfect predator.” “They are eating machines… they look devastating and awesome when you see them hunting.”
12:40 The impact of Jaws “What is baffling to me is that this one movie – released in 1976 – completely defined the way humans see sharks…. every time somebody saw a shark it was reported as if aliens invaded.”
16:41 “One moose hit one person in Jasper? ‘We’re going to shoot every moose in Jasper!’ That is the approach to sharks. And I wish I put that analogy in the book… the government does not go, “it’s time for a war on moose.” You get a bear bite you don’t go after every bear.”
17:20 “We’re not food to them. We’re a lousy food source.”
18:00 “Sharks just look scary to us – something about them hits us on a primal level.”
21:18 Shark personalities and shark friendships.
23:40 The dangers of anthropodenial and the term’s creator, Frans de Waal.  “When you tickle a monkey it laughs.”
25:47 “Everything is now eating plastics… humans don’t share. Humans just are not good at sharing.”
26:30 “The more environmental stuff that I do, the more astonished I am by nature.”
28:10 “There are almost always sharks fairly close to shore… they’re everywhere. We’ve all been really close to sharks if we’ve been in the water.”
30:00 “Roughly five people are killed by sharks each year… falling bookshelves definitely kill more people each year than sharks. TVs falling on people. Just pick the most random thing and they are all more dangerous than sharks.”
31:10 Running for Saanich council. Why I ran for political office.
36:08 “Joseph – you’re an essential service.”

Director Josh Zeman (@joshzeman)  on the quest for the loneliest whale in the world and shifting his focus from human mysteries to marine mysteries with his movie, The Loneliest Whale: The Search for 52.  “Just when you think you’ve had too much devil-worshipping and serial killers, you go and you spend a day working on whales and everything’s okay again.”

Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.

Support Our Guest

Books on Amazon and Classes

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

Show notes:

0:00 – intro
4:37 – There once was a film in Nantucket. . .
6:20 – Working on a whaling ship at age 14.
9:47 – “It was such a cool story that interconnected science and legend and naval stuff. It was such a fascinating journey.”
13:38 – “There’s a mystery here for us to solve.”
13:55 – The first time he saw a whale.
17:18 – Looking at loneliness and why this story became a phenomenon.
19:28 – Explaining the idea of 52 Hertz.
23:12 – Moving from true crime to the mystery of 52 Blue.
24:50 – Catching fire on Kickstarter
28:52 – “Just when you think you’ve had too much devil-worshipping and serial killers you go and you spend a day working on whales and everything’s okay again.”
29:33 – “Understand what your consumerism does.”


Filmmaker Nadine Pequeneza talks about meeting and fighting for the North Atlantic Right Whales Right Whales for her award-winning documentary, Last of the Right Whales, with Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

Mark mentioning his campaign is authorized by Rayne Ellycrys Benu.
Mark’s campaign sponsorship mention is authorized by Rayne Ellycrys Benu -mly@icloud.com

Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.

Support Our Guest

Books on Amazon and Classes

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

Seattle Times (@seattletimes) environment reporter Lynda V Mapes (@LyndaVMapes) on dams versus salmon, saving the southern resident orcas and how Tahlequah changed the world. “All the things we do for our comfort, convenience and commerce are not good for the southern residents. And that’s just fact.”
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.

Support Our Guest

Books on Amazon and Classes

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

Show notes:

00:30 – Lynda Mapes on falling in love with Ocean Sun
1:50 – Skaana introduction to Lynda Mapes and Tahlequah
9:31 – Removing dams and saving orcas
10:47 – “What do we want the next 150 years to look like?”
11:06 – Becoming the environmental reporter for Seattle newspapers and covering the Makah whale hunt.
15:25 – “We have a motto at the Seattle Times – news you can’t get anywhere else.”
19:30 – Hearing about Tahlequah and her daughter: “And I thought, she won’t let it go. I’m not letting it go.”
20:26 – “I don’t think she ever dropped it. I think it fell apart.”
21:04 – “By the time we wrote that last story where she dropped the calf, there were six million people reading that story online.”
21:13 – Scientists know that these very sophisticated intelligent animals grieve and that that’s what she was doing… these are families.”
26:05 – Tahlequah’s political impact.
30:54 – The Snake River Dam vs. salmon and orcas.
39:15 – Undamming the Elwha River – a river revival.
43:20 – Return of the eagles and dippers (a songbird at the Elwha).
46:36 – “Canada has been a real heartbreak for us down here in the States” – American opposition to Canadian pipeline expansion.
50:27 – “All the things we do for our comfort, convenience and commerce are not good for the southern residents. And that’s just fact.”
55:00 – On the differences in dealing with NOAA and the DFO.
57:38 – Names versus numbers.
1:00:17 – “Calling them by this sort of widget number is bizarre and insulting.”
1:04:00 – “The right way to think about these animals is… they comprise ancient societies.”
1:04:45 – “People say to me oh they’re just like us. Don’t flatter yourself… we could learn a lot from them.”
1:09:30 – “Everywhere we live is orca country.”
1:10:00 – On why she has hope.

Author and primatologist Frans de Waal  talks about great apes, not-so-great humans, animal emotions and anthropodenial with Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.

Support Our Guest

For more on the life and work of Frans de Waal

Books on Amazon and Classes

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

Show Notes

1:30 – Intro

3:35 – Defining anthropodenial.

6:05 – Anthropomorphism and primates.

7:02 – “That’s the interesting part is we are so human-centric that we can deal with facial expressions, but not with the expressions of an elephant who do a lot of things was their trunk and ears, but their face is not very mobile.”

8:31 – Are humans a “successful” species?

11:05 – On human exceptionalism. “People always want to be special.”

12:40 – “If related species show similar behavior under similar circumstances, you have to use the same terminology because the psychology behind it is probably similar too.”

13:28 – How science’s relationship with anthropomorphism is changing.

14:40 – Laughing chimps.

16:15 -Why primatologists use names for apes not numbers.

17:58 – Animals and grief. “All animals that have attachments can also grieve.”

20:30 -“I’m not against humanizing animals or animalizing humans.”

22:49 – Survival of the kindest versus survival of the fittest.

26:00 – Talking about his book Mama’s Last Hug.

27:40 – Gender roles in bonobos.

30:05 – Bonobos solve problems with sex.

32:46 – Is there resistance to de Waal’s work and theories?

34:27 – His thoughts on animal personhood and the rights of animals.

36:30 – How he became interested in animals and animal behaviour.

42:34 – How he began working with chimpanzees.

46:32 – Becoming friends with apes.

47:25 – Animal communication and “dialect”.

51:12 – On being a cat person. “I consider cats extremely social.”

52:10 – Talking to the Dalai Lama about empathy. “I think empathy is found in all the mammals.”