Getting the Poop on Orca Genetics, Species, Names and Really Old Whales With NOAA Scientists Tom Jefferson & Kim Parsons

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NOAA scientists Kim Parsons & Tom Jefferson on orca species, orca survival, orca scat, really old whales, the return of harbour porpoises, the fight for vaquitas and so much more in the second part of a special two-part episode on the two soon-to-be official species of orcas who call the Salish Sea home.

Shownotes:

2:29 The challenge of naming new animals… scientific names, the names we use and the politics of naming. Yes, we’re sticking with Residents & Bigg’s.

5:15 How many orca species are there? The challenges of collecting data.

7:01 The genetic challenges facing the southern resident orcas.

10:09 Not enough J-pod baby-daddies.

12:32 “I think we need some optimism here…” a happy story about harbour porpoises. “There may be hope for this species after all. We know what the problems are… if we can make enough compromises in our own behaviour to reduce those threats, I think there’s good reason for being optimistic that the future of southern resident killer whales can still look quite bright.”

14:50 Biological and chronological ages.

19:30 The latest on the vanishing vaquitas – the most endangered marine mammal in the world. Are there only 10 left? “As long as there’s one male and one female left in the population there’s a chance for them to survive.”

23:20 Talking poop about orcas. And orca poop. “I spent a lot of time working with killer whale poop… I’ve collected a lot of poop in my time.”

24:55 Is there another orca species in Alaska? Probably! How many species are there? “We may be looking at six or maybe eight species… maybe more.”

26:58 Improvements in understanding orca health and their environments.

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Kim Parsons from NOAA.
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Killer Whales Versus Orcas & Big Bigg’s Whale News with NOAA Scientists Tom Jefferson & Kim Parsons

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NOAA scientists Kim Parsons & Tom Jefferson on killer whale science, killer whales versus orcas, orcas versus dolphins, how science becomes official, the challenges of translating science to civilians and so much more in the first of a special two-part episode on the two soon to be official species of orcas who call the Salish Sea home.

Shownotes:

3:45 Meet marine mammal biologist, Tom Jefferson.

4:21 Meet molecular geneticist, Kim Parsons.

5:10 Orcas or killer whales? And how to pronounce orcinus orca.

6:35 Orcas vs. whales/dolphins vs. Delphinidae and confusion over “common names.”

10:35 Talking taxonomy: splitting orca populations into two species.

12:55 Exploring orca genetics.

17:38 What’s in a name? Taxonomists reviewing splitting up species. And making the species designation official. Ish.

20:10 How to tell the difference between types of orcas.

24:31 Early observations of killer whales and how and why they got their names.

26:16 Naming the two orcas – the scientific names and the names we’ll all use…

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Tom Jefferson from NOAA.
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Eco-Pirate and Eco-Church Founder Paul Watson on Fighting for Whales and Phytoplankton, Launching Neptune’s Navy and Daring Iceland to Arrest Him

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Eco-pirate Paul Watson talks about taking on whalers in Iceland and Japan, splitting with the Sea Shepherd, launching an eco-church and what the hell just happened in his world with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young (author of Sharks Forever & Orcas Everywhere). “We’re ecologically ignorant. And unless we learn to educate ourselves, we’re not going to survive.”

Shownotes:

4:45 Paul Watson on how he landed in Paris and why he’s only working with Sea Shepherd France & Brazil.

5:40  “They said I was too controversial. Too confrontational.”

9:20 On being an international fugitive. And the disappearance of his Interpol Red Notice.

19:00 “We’ll rebuild it.” On the split with Sea Shepherd Global, his new boat and the dangers of sponsors.

21:40 On radically retiring Sea Shepherd vessels.

22:18 “The three most valuable things – courage and imagination and passion.”

22:30 What’s in a name? Neptune’s Pirates, Neptune’s Navy and The Captain Paul Watson Foundation

23:43 Taking action in Iceland and saving whales by taking on “modern Ahab” Kristján Loftsson. “I’m not really concerned about getting arrested.” Why he’d like to be arrested in Iceland.

28:14 Chasing super-trawlers and the importance of saving krill.

30:30 The return of Japanese whalers – with a new factory ship. And preparing to take on a faster ship.

33:45 Shifting baselines and rebranding fish like pollock becoming artificial crab. “Who wants to buy a toothfish… It all comes down to marketing.”

35:10 “We’re overfishing the ocean.” The need for a 75 year moratorium on mechanized fishing.

35:40 The fight for phytoplankton. “If phytoplankton disappear from the ocean, we die… The ocean dies, we die.”

37:15 “We’re ecologically ignorant. And unless we learn to educate ourselves, we’re not going to survive.”

38:20 Founding the Church of Biocentrism and the dangers of anthropocentrism.

45:30 “We can’t have a viewpoint that it was all created for us and we’re the only species that matters.”

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Captain Paul Watson in his natural habitat!
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Sea Shepherd Captain, Paul Watson, on saving salmon, aggressive nonviolence and his journey from outlaw to law enforcement. Part two of our special two-part interview.

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Sea Shepherd Captain, Paul Watson (@CaptPaulWatson), talks with Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung) about getting political, remembering Rob Stewart, saving salmon with Alexandra Morton and the Sea Shepherd Navy! Part two of our special two-part interview.

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Excerpts from Orcapedia by Paul Watson and Tiffany Humphrey

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

Sea Shepherd Global

Sea Shepherd Legal

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Time Codes

    • 03:08 Running for public office. 
    • 03:38 “I did it primarily for the platform that it provided.”
    • 04:09 The Green Party trying to kick him out as a candidate.
    • 05:08 On the Sea Shepherd’s policy of “aggressive nonviolence.”
    • 08:29 On the Sea Shepherd going from outlaw to law enforcement.
    • 08:54 “We uphold international conservation maritime law.”
    • 11:47 The impact of Rob Stewart and his documentary, Sharkwater
    • 15:01 “The camera’s the most powerful weapon that’s ever been invented. It changes things. It can change society.”
    • 15:35 Operation Virus Hunter and working with Alexandra Morton to help save the salmon in the Salish Sea.
    • 19:02 Saving the vaquita.
    • 22:52 The Sea Shepherd’s current campaigns.
    • 23:45 The size of the Sea Shepherd navy
    • 24:14 “Everybody can do something.”
    • 27:00 Mark Leiren-Young performs Operation Dessert Storm live in Victoria in 2018 – music by Mike McCormick from The Arrogant Worms

Sea Shepherd Captain, Paul Watson, on Seaspiracies and the Smartest Species on Earth

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Sea Shepherd Captain, Paul Watson (@CaptPaulWatson), talks with Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung) about Seaspiracy, life as an outlaw and as a movie star, the impact of Covid on life in the oceans and whether whales are more intelligent than we are.

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Berke Breathed’s original drawing of Opus, the Penguin – used to illustrate Mark Leiren-Young’s poem Operation Dessert Storm in the Sea Shepherd newsletter.

Excerpts from Orcapedia

Mentioned Episodes:

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

Sea Shepherd Global

Sea Shepherd Legal

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TIME CODES

  • 4:38– How Covid has effected the Sea Shepherd and the oceans
  • 4:52– “There has been an increase in poaching.”
  • 6:52– His new book, Orcapedia
  • 7:10– “What we’re talking about here is an international slave trade where the orcas are the new slaves.”
  • 8:36– “The orcas in captivity have names and therefore we tend to relate to them more so than the ones that are in the wild.”
  • 10:13– Tilikum’s story
  • 13:41– How Watson fell for whales.
  • 13:58– “To me whales are highly intelligent, very social, self-aware sentient beings and I think, in many cases, they’re probably more intelligent than we are.”
  • 17:20–  The backlash to Seaspiracy
  • 17:30– “The fishing industry’s very powerful and they throw a lot of money into their PR machines.”
  • 20:55–   “What we really need is a tuna-free tuna.”
  • 21:12–   “You can find scientists who will defend any side of an argument. I call them “biostitutes,” when they’re working for the industry.”
  • 23:36– “A good percentage of the fishing industry is strictly, completely illegal – unregulated and uncontrolled.”
  • 27:10– How his movie Watson happened.
  • 29:04– Selling his life story – a lot.
Elizabeth May
“All whales matter. All cetaceans matter. All life matters.”

“All whales matter. All cetaceans matter. All life matters.”

“If you’re looking for charismatic megafauna you really can’t beat the amazing creatures that whales are – for their intelligence, for their intricate communications, for their relationships.”

“The most endangered whale species in Canada is the right whale, and what we need to do is stop a company called Bilcon from the United States from getting permission to build a quarry on Digby Neck, Nova Scotia…”

“There are whales at risk all around the world, but our southern resident killer whale population is also extremely endangered. The loss of even one animal could imperil the population as a whole.”

“The number one thing we need to do to protect the southern resident killer whale population is to make sure we don’t see new pipelines that increase the tanker traffic.”

“…the Kinder Morgan proposal particularly was found even by the National Energy Board Environmental Assessment that was woefully inadequate, even they had to take account of Department of Fisheries and Oceans expert testimony that whale strikes from the increase in tanker traffic is a significant risk to the survival of the Southern Resident killer whale population.”

“We need to protect their habitat, we need to protect their food source, which means taking care of our salmon. We need to take care of, and pay attention to, the amount of noise in our marine environment… So we need to pay attention to giving them enough space.”

“…I’ve had some close encounters of the whale kind, just being on the water and being silent, and seeing what happens… When it happens, it’s quite an extraordinary experience and quite powerful, to come eye to eye with a whale.”

“Kinder Morgan’s pipeline is a threat, a direct threat, to the Southern Resident killer whale population.”

“We can’t forget the oceans. The oceans are out of sight and out of mind to those of us land animals. And the multiple threats to our oceans are growing.”

“[Ocean acidification] is a scary threat, and it’s looming, and we don’t know enough about it.”

“They need the three-quarters of this planet that is the ocean. We live on the one-quarter of this planet that’s land. But we can’t live on land without those oceans. Terrestrial species need oceans, and we tend to forget about them.”

“End our addiction to fossil fuels”

“We’re pushing as hard as we can to bring back science and to have Environment Canada have the kind of budget it needs to hire more people, so that we can actually have recovery plans for endangered species that make sense.”

“This generation, humanity now, has an obligation to stop robbing our children.”

Dag Ingemar Børresen
“And of course also because they knew fifty years earlier that they had to stop whaling if it was going to be sustainable…if they wanted it to be sustainable.  So they were quite clear about what they were doing, but they didn’t stop it.”

“It’s impossible to compare the Norwegian whaling industry as it was with the whaling today.” 

“Around 1930, there was about 10,000 Norwegian whalers going to the antarctic every year.  They hunted down ten thousands of whales each catching season. The whaling today is just nearly nothing.  It’s just a few fishermen catching minke whales. It’s just a few hundred minke whales a year. ”

“If you talk to old whalers, you can get, they probably have some stories about killer whales, but it is often related to killer whales who were attacking dead whales who were caught by the whale catchers. 

“Up to the late 1920s [the Norwegian whaling industry] was global.” 

“I don’t know anyone today who eats whale meat.”

“Why should we eat whale meat?  There are so many other things to eat, I don’t know really.” 

“Is it a big deal? No, it’s not a big deal at all. No one cares at all. It’s just a few fishermen up north.  If you ask Norwegians they’re not engaged in anything that you’re asking about, really. It’s only politics, isn’t it.” 

“We’re going to focus a lot on the blue whale and the story of the blue whale, how it was nearly extinct at the end of modern whaling.  It was very close, you know, very close. So it’s a really horrible story. “

“And of course also because they knew fifty years earlier that they had to stop whaling if it was going to be sustainable…if they wanted it to be sustainable.  So they were quite clear about what they were doing, but they didn’t stop it.” 

“It was very short-term. They took what they could and then it ended.” 

About Keiko “I don’t know if anyone cared about it at all.  I guess…Norwegians are not very…. I mean it was just…. a whale.  I don’t think Norwegians have this sort of emotional connection with the whales at all.” 

Norway’s Whaling Ways: Sandefjord’s Whaling Museum (Hvalfangstmuseet)  

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Today Norway is one of only three whaling nations in the world, but the country’s whaling operations used to be worldwide. Dag Ingemar Børresen of Sandefjord’s Whaling Museum (Hvalfangstmuseet) on Norway’s whaling history and the market for Minke meat.

“I guess…Norwegians are not very…. I mean it was just….  a whale.  I don’t think Norwegians have this sort of emotional connection with the whales at all..”

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