Andrew Lewin – host of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast – on Jaws vs. sharks, orcas vs. sharks, Asian carp and working with and against Canada’s department of Fisheries and Oceans and how young people can and do change the world.

Eco-pirate Paul Watson talks about taking on whalers in Iceland and Japan, splitting with the Sea Shepherd, launching an eco-church and what the hell just happened in his world with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young (author of Sharks Forever & Orcas Everywhere). “We’re ecologically ignorant. And unless we learn to educate ourselves, we’re not going to survive.”

Shownotes:

4:45 Paul Watson on how he landed in Paris and why he’s only working with Sea Shepherd France & Brazil.

5:40  “They said I was too controversial. Too confrontational.”

9:20 On being an international fugitive. And the disappearance of his Interpol Red Notice.

19:00 “We’ll rebuild it.” On the split with Sea Shepherd Global, his new boat and the dangers of sponsors.

21:40 On radically retiring Sea Shepherd vessels.

22:18 “The three most valuable things – courage and imagination and passion.”

22:30 What’s in a name? Neptune’s Pirates, Neptune’s Navy and The Captain Paul Watson Foundation

23:43 Taking action in Iceland and saving whales by taking on “modern Ahab” Kristján Loftsson. “I’m not really concerned about getting arrested.” Why he’d like to be arrested in Iceland.

28:14 Chasing super-trawlers and the importance of saving krill.

30:30 The return of Japanese whalers – with a new factory ship. And preparing to take on a faster ship.

33:45 Shifting baselines and rebranding fish like pollock becoming artificial crab. “Who wants to buy a toothfish… It all comes down to marketing.”

35:10 “We’re overfishing the ocean.” The need for a 75 year moratorium on mechanized fishing.

35:40 The fight for phytoplankton. “If phytoplankton disappear from the ocean, we die… The ocean dies, we die.”

37:15 “We’re ecologically ignorant. And unless we learn to educate ourselves, we’re not going to survive.”

38:20 Founding the Church of Biocentrism and the dangers of anthropocentrism.

45:30 “We can’t have a viewpoint that it was all created for us and we’re the only species that matters.”

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Captain Paul Watson in his natural habitat!
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Author, broadcaster and activist Melody Horrill (The Dolphin Who Saved Me) talks about saving the Port River dolphins and how a dolphin named Jock saved her with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young (author of Sharks Forever & Orcas Everywhere). “Dolphins do have a special place in our hearts… They help us connect to the water and the natural world.”

Shownotes:

5:10 Meet the Port River dolphins. And find out why they’re in trouble.

10:20 “I made it my single-minded mission to let everyone know in South Australia that these dolphins existed. They’re here.”

11:10 “They do have a special place in our hearts… They help us connect I think to the water and the natural world.”

11:50 On the Port River becoming a dolphin sanctuary and how her documentary helped change minds and laws.

15:23 Is the sanctuary really dolphin-friendly?

15:46 The first time she saw a dolphin.

16:51 Meeting Jock.

19:35 “Little did I know at that time that Jock would end up being my best friend. And lead me out of a place that I didn’t think was possible. Immediately I just felt this connection to this solitary dolphin. He was by himself… he just seemed adrift and alone. So from my perspective it was this instant recognition of another being that I felt compassion for and a connection with.”

22:20 “He accepted me in a way that I’d never been accepted in my life before.”

24:20 “He taught me a lot about forgiveness.”

25:07 “He forced me to live in the moment… we’re not feeding him, we’re not enticing him. There’s no other reason for him to hang out with me other than he just wants to. How mind-blowing is that?… It made me realize love was possible.”

26:00 Helping Jock meet and interact with other dolphins. “He taught me about courage.”

29:59 “We really tried to keep his friendliness quiet.” Jock following her boat.

32:34 Connecting with Jane Goodall and the Jane Goodall Institute.

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Melody Horrill with the perfect beach book!
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Author and marine conservation biologist David Shiffman (Why Sharks Matter) talks about Sharkweek, Sharknados, megalodon myths, Jaws and junk science with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young (author of Sharks Forever & Big Sharks, Small World). “More people are bitten by other people on the New York city subway system every year than are bitten by sharks in the whole world… but whenever any shark gives someone side eye anywhere in the world, it’s headline news everywhere in the world.”

Shownotes:

4:10 “Jaws has had a really transformative impact. For sharks mostly bad.” How Jaws changed everything for sharks and meeting Richard Dreyfuss. “The movie is just so good.”

5:05 “It’s really changed the world. Before Jaws came out most people really didn’t think about sharks at all.”

5:56 “Spielberg has a lot to answer for here.”

6:23 The Jaws Effect. “It refers to how fictional portrayals of a real world issue can affect how people really think about that issue. In reality.”

7:36 Watching The Shark is Broken – the Jaws play – on Broadway!

10:14 On the impact of Sharknado! “I love those goofy, bad shark movies… there are two kinds of shark movies – there are bad shark movies and there’s Jaws.” And how Sharknado funded his PhD work.

13:18 “It’s just frigging weird how much this goofy Saturday night basic cable movie has escaped its cage and entered the cultural zeitgeist.”

13:44 “Here’s a crazy story for you…” How Sharknado may have launched Donald Trump’s political career.

16:04 On being Sharkweek’s number one critic “I’m very critical of the dumpster fire of nonsense and lies that they show every year.”

17:33 “I could rant about how bad Sharkweek is… forever.” And how Sharkweek does nothing to help sharks. “Sharkweek and I are not besties.”

17:48 There are more dudes named Mike on Sharkweek than there are women… even though in real life 60% of shark experts are women.

19:37 Great white sharks are mentioned in 40% of newspaper stories about endangered sharks – even though they’re not one of the most endangered species… All anyone wants to talk or write about… great white sharks.

21:00 Getting people to care about the bigger picture…”One thing that does change people’s minds is “yes, and…””

25:44 Talking 24 and sharks. “All of the species of sharks in the world combined have killed a lot fewer people than Jack Bauer has killed on-screen. Not even counting his off-screen exploits.”

26:34 “More people are bitten by other people on the New York city subway system every year than are bitten by sharks in the whole world… but whenever any shark gives someone side eye anywhere in the world, it’s headline news everywhere in the world.”

27:46 “Seeing a shark swimming close to the beach is not news. That’s where they’re supposed to be.”

28:00 A toy story – myth busting a fake goblin shark.

31:18 The megalodon conspiracy! “They were very cool – but they’ve been extinct for millions of years.”

33:38 The importance of public science engagement.

34:54 A new treaty that may help save sharks – and other species.

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David Shiffman and friends…
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Filmmaker Gloria Pancrazi (Coextinction) talks with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young about red herrings, fishy fish farms, whale watching, whale saving and Coextinction. “Orcas are telling us something. They’re showing us something. You can learn a lot about the things we’ve got to do in the world right now by looking at these orcas.”

Shownotes:

3:35 Meet Gloria Pancrazi and how the story of love for orcas turned into a mission to save the southern resident orcas.

6:12 “A lot of politicians like to blame whale watchers because then they can accept a pipeline that’s going to increase tanker traffic by seven- fold… you can go on and on about the impact of the Trans Mountain pipeline and how it’s going to impact southern resident orcas.”

8:38 “One of the biggest points of the movie is that everything is connected… it’s hard to pick one big issue.”

11:50 “It always fascinated us how the orcas are telling us something. They’s showing us something. You can learn a lot about the things we’ve got to do in the world right now by looking at these orcas.”

13:18 “They are each other’s home and we’re destroying that home.”

13:38 The first time she saw a whale:

15:35 Working for Cetus’s Straitwatch program in Canada and SoundWatch in the US and the challenges of keeping orcas safe from small boats.

22:04 Visiting OrcaLab. “It’s magical up there.”

25:28 The impacts of colonization and colonial trauma.

27:50 Where and how to see Coextinction.

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Jason Colby (author of Orca: How We Came to Know and Love the Ocean’s Greatest Predator) talks with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young about the capture of Toki/Tokitae/Lolita/Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut and how Penn Cove almost ended the southern resident orcas and was the beginning of the end of the capture era. “It’s worth remembering that the argument at the time, if there could have been a debate at the time, it was really between whale catching and whale shooting, not whale catching and whale watching.”

Shownotes:

0:00 The voice of Toki.

4:08 Jason Colby on writing the book – or at least a very long chapter of his book – on Penn Cove.

6:05 “They eventually capture virtually all of these orcas behind nets. They estimate at the time around 90 individuals… The estimates vary but almost certainly the entire population of the Southern residents.”

7:43 “It’s worth remembering that the argument at the time, if there could have been a debate at the time, it was really between whale catching and whale shooting, not whale catching and whale watching.”

8:50 “Once they rounded them up, 90 to 100 animals, if Ted Griffin and his company would have wanted to and would have had the market to sell all 90 of them they could have done that. If they had wanted to shoot them all in the nets, they could have done that. There may have been a firearms violation, but there would be no sort of conservation law violation.”

10:30 “This must have been horrifically traumatic for these pods to be torn apart.”

11:20 How activists trying to free the orcas accidentally kill four baby orcas.

12:20 Hiding the bodies… “Whether it was illegal or not, it looks like a murder scene.”

14:20 Is Toki really L Pod or did she learn how to speak L Pod from Hugo in Miami?

20:04 “It was a generational loss.”

21:20 “If Griffin had done what the fisherman who was helping him demanded – which is to sell all of them all – you could have seen the entire population of Southern residents extinguished before we had even identified them scientifically as a population.”

23:00 How to help orcas today and the problems humans are creating for orcas today.

26:04 Toki talks.

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Jason Colby from Mark Leiren-Young’s award-winning documentary The Hundred Year-Old Whale
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Howard Garrett (Orca Network) remembering the southern resident orca Toki/Tokitae/Lolita/Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut and his nearly thirty year fight to bring Toki home to the Salish Sea. “Toki’s legacy is building, building, building by the day… She wasn’t just a circus animal. She was a member of the southern residents.”

Shownotes:

0:00 The voice of Toki.
4:57 How Howard started fighting to bring Toki home

7:50 “I really feel like she would have thrived and been thrilled and so relieved to be in her familiar waters.”

14:16 A superpod wake for Toki?

15:55 The Lummi Nation’s fight for Toki.

20:05  The origins of Toki’s names and becoming Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut.

21:44 “Her tank violated the very dismal standard of the animal welfare act…”

30:15 Getting the news that she was gone.

34:00 Toki’s legacy.

43:00 Toki speaks.

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Howard Garrett at a marine conference in Vancouver in 2017
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Author and biologist Rowena Rae on swimming with salmon, threats to this essential species and their incredible resilience with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young. “Salmon can thrive if we just give them a chance… if people would just get out of the way, they can thrive”.

Shownotes:

3:54 On becoming a biologist and leaving biology for writing.
7:12 Introducing young readers to the story of Rachel Carson.

9:20 Introducing Rachel Carson and the importance of Silent Spring.

12:20 Swimming with salmon.

14:07 Keystone species and why they matter.

  Humans Vs. Salmon; almost everything eats salmon  — salmon as “eco-system engineers”.

23:44 How to save Chinook salmon.

26:09 The fish farm jail-break in Washington State.

28:50 On the resilience of nature and salmon, and why to have hope. “They’re tenacious, they hang on … salmon can thrive if we just give them a chance”.

31:30 How we can help salmon.

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Rowena Rae – author of Salmon: Swimming for Survival

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Shark expert Alessandro De Maddalena talks with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young about hunting for the perfect shark photo, the two orcas who are hunting great white sharks in South African waters, what makes great whites great and so much more! “The reason I love sharks is that they are a perfect art form. I consider Mother Nature the greatest artist.”

Shownotes:

4:22 How Alessandro De Maddalena fell for sharks as a kid and why sharks are cooler than dinosaurs.
9:00 Why he thinks the great white is great: “the first time I was watching a great white underwater it was magic… The reason I love sharks is that they are a perfect art form. I consider Mother Nature the greatest artist.”
13:10 Perfect predators and perfect book titles.
17:01 How little sharks care about humans. “Sharks care very little about humans. In most cases they don’t care at all.”
21:40 “The fear was born with Jaws…”
27:50 “People like to be afraid. People like monsters. People also like to create monsters.”
28:44 Leading Great White Shark expeditions.
33:40 His three best moments with sharks.
37:15 The truth behind the orcas attacking sharks in South Africa. No they are not a major threat to the great white shark population!
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Alessandro De Maddalena

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Alessandro De Maddalena image – featured in Mark Leiren-Young’s book Sharks Forever

Sean Holman @Seanholman founder and lead of the Climate Disaster Project @cdp_community talks with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young @leirenyoung about the past and future of the media’s climate coverage, fighting fires with facts and sharing stories to save the future.

Shownotes:

5:00 Welcome Sean Holman. Why he challenged journalists to do better in their climate coverage.
10:57 The challenge of news cycles moving faster than science
15:10 “There is a lot that we can individually do about combat climate change creating collective action around that. as an example In the United States if everyone switched from eating beef to beans the United States would have actually met the greenhouse gas targets that were set by Obama.”
16:34 ““Almost all of us are climate disaster survivors in one way shape or form but many of us are also perpetrators of climate change as well in our individual lives.”
17:01 Climate impact on the oceans.
21:53 Climate impact on the economy
23:44 How the smoke from the 2017 BC Wildfire season changed the way he saw the world
26:40 The origins of the Climate Disaster Project and the importance of creating community
29:33 What gives Sean Holman hope
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Sean Holman

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Photo via the BC Wildfire Service.

Jonathan Mesulam @MesulamJonathan Founder and Coordinator of the West Coast Development Foundation in New Guinea talks with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young @leirenyoung about the crucial fight to stop Deep Sea Mining in his home – New Guinea – and around the world.

Shownotes:

5:00 Welcome to Jonathan Mesulam
10:00 The importance of the church in fighting sea bed mining in New Guinea
12:20 Calling out Canada for allowing Canadian companies to mine in the waters off other countries
14:49 “No one knows the risk.”
16:23 On displacing communities. “If the sea is destroyed where are people going to get food?”
21:40 On leaving teaching to fight for the oceans.
25:12 “This fight is not really about us, it’s about everyone.”
27:00 All the places the sign we carried has traveled.
28:32 What he’d like Canadians to do. “We’re looking at the Pacific Ocean and it’s connecting you and me.Any activity on the Pacific Ocean is going to affect your coastline as well. The sea has no boundary… Canadians really need to speak up… Canadians should say no to sea bed mining… This project is a Canadian initiation.”
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Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@LeirenYoung) shares the introduction and opening chapter of his new book Sharks Forever: The Mystery and History of the Planet’s Perfect Predator published by Orca Book Publishers (@orcabook).  “If you swim in the ocean every day for 100 years, you are more likely to be struck by lightning than swallowed by a shark.” – Mark Leiren-Young from Chapter 1, Sharks Forever.

 

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Show notes:

0:00 – Intro
0:00 – Introduction to Sharks Forever
0:00 – Chapter 1: Sharks Forever

Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung) talks sharks, Sharkwater (@teamsharkwater) and politics with Joseph Planta (@Planta) on a special shared episode with Planta On the Line @TheCommentary.ca


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Show notes:

00:21 Introduction
2:51 Joseph Planta introduces Mark Leiren-Young.
4:00 Why Sharks Forever is dedicated to Rob Stewart and meeting Rob in Barcelona
10:45 Why I call sharks “the perfect predator.” “They are eating machines… they look devastating and awesome when you see them hunting.”
12:40 The impact of Jaws “What is baffling to me is that this one movie – released in 1976 – completely defined the way humans see sharks…. every time somebody saw a shark it was reported as if aliens invaded.”
16:41 “One moose hit one person in Jasper? ‘We’re going to shoot every moose in Jasper!’ That is the approach to sharks. And I wish I put that analogy in the book… the government does not go, “it’s time for a war on moose.” You get a bear bite you don’t go after every bear.”
17:20 “We’re not food to them. We’re a lousy food source.”
18:00 “Sharks just look scary to us – something about them hits us on a primal level.”
21:18 Shark personalities and shark friendships.
23:40 The dangers of anthropodenial and the term’s creator, Frans de Waal.  “When you tickle a monkey it laughs.”
25:47 “Everything is now eating plastics… humans don’t share. Humans just are not good at sharing.”
26:30 “The more environmental stuff that I do, the more astonished I am by nature.”
28:10 “There are almost always sharks fairly close to shore… they’re everywhere. We’ve all been really close to sharks if we’ve been in the water.”
30:00 “Roughly five people are killed by sharks each year… falling bookshelves definitely kill more people each year than sharks. TVs falling on people. Just pick the most random thing and they are all more dangerous than sharks.”
31:10 Running for Saanich council. Why I ran for political office.
36:08 “Joseph – you’re an essential service.”


Filmmaker Nadine Pequeneza talks about meeting and fighting for the North Atlantic Right Whales Right Whales for her award-winning documentary, Last of the Right Whales, with Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

Mark mentioning his campaign is authorized by Rayne Ellycrys Benu.
Mark’s campaign sponsorship mention is authorized by Rayne Ellycrys Benu -mly@icloud.com

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Seattle Times (@seattletimes) environment reporter Lynda V Mapes (@LyndaVMapes) on dams versus salmon, saving the southern resident orcas and how Tahlequah changed the world. “All the things we do for our comfort, convenience and commerce are not good for the southern residents. And that’s just fact.”
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Show notes:

00:30 – Lynda Mapes on falling in love with Ocean Sun
1:50 – Skaana introduction to Lynda Mapes and Tahlequah
9:31 – Removing dams and saving orcas
10:47 – “What do we want the next 150 years to look like?”
11:06 – Becoming the environmental reporter for Seattle newspapers and covering the Makah whale hunt.
15:25 – “We have a motto at the Seattle Times – news you can’t get anywhere else.”
19:30 – Hearing about Tahlequah and her daughter: “And I thought, she won’t let it go. I’m not letting it go.”
20:26 – “I don’t think she ever dropped it. I think it fell apart.”
21:04 – “By the time we wrote that last story where she dropped the calf, there were six million people reading that story online.”
21:13 – Scientists know that these very sophisticated intelligent animals grieve and that that’s what she was doing… these are families.”
26:05 – Tahlequah’s political impact.
30:54 – The Snake River Dam vs. salmon and orcas.
39:15 – Undamming the Elwha River – a river revival.
43:20 – Return of the eagles and dippers (a songbird at the Elwha).
46:36 – “Canada has been a real heartbreak for us down here in the States” – American opposition to Canadian pipeline expansion.
50:27 – “All the things we do for our comfort, convenience and commerce are not good for the southern residents. And that’s just fact.”
55:00 – On the differences in dealing with NOAA and the DFO.
57:38 – Names versus numbers.
1:00:17 – “Calling them by this sort of widget number is bizarre and insulting.”
1:04:00 – “The right way to think about these animals is… they comprise ancient societies.”
1:04:45 – “People say to me oh they’re just like us. Don’t flatter yourself… we could learn a lot from them.”
1:09:30 – “Everywhere we live is orca country.”
1:10:00 – On why she has hope.

Author and primatologist Frans de Waal  talks about great apes, not-so-great humans, animal emotions and anthropodenial with Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

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Show Notes

1:30 – Intro

3:35 – Defining anthropodenial.

6:05 – Anthropomorphism and primates.

7:02 – “That’s the interesting part is we are so human-centric that we can deal with facial expressions, but not with the expressions of an elephant who do a lot of things was their trunk and ears, but their face is not very mobile.”

8:31 – Are humans a “successful” species?

11:05 – On human exceptionalism. “People always want to be special.”

12:40 – “If related species show similar behavior under similar circumstances, you have to use the same terminology because the psychology behind it is probably similar too.”

13:28 – How science’s relationship with anthropomorphism is changing.

14:40 – Laughing chimps.

16:15 -Why primatologists use names for apes not numbers.

17:58 – Animals and grief. “All animals that have attachments can also grieve.”

20:30 -“I’m not against humanizing animals or animalizing humans.”

22:49 – Survival of the kindest versus survival of the fittest.

26:00 – Talking about his book Mama’s Last Hug.

27:40 – Gender roles in bonobos.

30:05 – Bonobos solve problems with sex.

32:46 – Is there resistance to de Waal’s work and theories?

34:27 – His thoughts on animal personhood and the rights of animals.

36:30 – How he became interested in animals and animal behaviour.

42:34 – How he began working with chimpanzees.

46:32 – Becoming friends with apes.

47:25 – Animal communication and “dialect”.

51:12 – On being a cat person. “I consider cats extremely social.”

52:10 – Talking to the Dalai Lama about empathy. “I think empathy is found in all the mammals.”

Sea Shepherd Captain, Paul Watson (@CaptPaulWatson), talks with Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung) about getting political, remembering Rob Stewart, saving salmon with Alexandra Morton and the Sea Shepherd Navy! Part two of our special two-part interview.

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Excerpts from Orcapedia by Paul Watson and Tiffany Humphrey

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

Sea Shepherd Global

Sea Shepherd Legal

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Time Codes

    • 03:08 Running for public office. 
    • 03:38 “I did it primarily for the platform that it provided.”
    • 04:09 The Green Party trying to kick him out as a candidate.
    • 05:08 On the Sea Shepherd’s policy of “aggressive nonviolence.”
    • 08:29 On the Sea Shepherd going from outlaw to law enforcement.
    • 08:54 “We uphold international conservation maritime law.”
    • 11:47 The impact of Rob Stewart and his documentary, Sharkwater
    • 15:01 “The camera’s the most powerful weapon that’s ever been invented. It changes things. It can change society.”
    • 15:35 Operation Virus Hunter and working with Alexandra Morton to help save the salmon in the Salish Sea.
    • 19:02 Saving the vaquita.
    • 22:52 The Sea Shepherd’s current campaigns.
    • 23:45 The size of the Sea Shepherd navy
    • 24:14 “Everybody can do something.”
    • 27:00 Mark Leiren-Young performs Operation Dessert Storm live in Victoria in 2018 – music by Mike McCormick from The Arrogant Worms

Sea Shepherd Captain, Paul Watson (@CaptPaulWatson), talks with Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung) about Seaspiracy, life as an outlaw and as a movie star, the impact of Covid on life in the oceans and whether whales are more intelligent than we are.

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Berke Breathed’s original drawing of Opus, the Penguin – used to illustrate Mark Leiren-Young’s poem Operation Dessert Storm in the Sea Shepherd newsletter.

Excerpts from Orcapedia

Mentioned Episodes:

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

Sea Shepherd Global

Sea Shepherd Legal

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TIME CODES

  • 4:38– How Covid has effected the Sea Shepherd and the oceans
  • 4:52– “There has been an increase in poaching.”
  • 6:52– His new book, Orcapedia
  • 7:10– “What we’re talking about here is an international slave trade where the orcas are the new slaves.”
  • 8:36– “The orcas in captivity have names and therefore we tend to relate to them more so than the ones that are in the wild.”
  • 10:13– Tilikum’s story
  • 13:41– How Watson fell for whales.
  • 13:58– “To me whales are highly intelligent, very social, self-aware sentient beings and I think, in many cases, they’re probably more intelligent than we are.”
  • 17:20–  The backlash to Seaspiracy
  • 17:30– “The fishing industry’s very powerful and they throw a lot of money into their PR machines.”
  • 20:55–   “What we really need is a tuna-free tuna.”
  • 21:12–   “You can find scientists who will defend any side of an argument. I call them “biostitutes,” when they’re working for the industry.”
  • 23:36– “A good percentage of the fishing industry is strictly, completely illegal – unregulated and uncontrolled.”
  • 27:10– How his movie Watson happened.
  • 29:04– Selling his life story – a lot.

Eco-warrior, Alexandra Morton, on her fight to save wild salmon, being gaslit by the Canadian government and her adventures in Green politics. She also dares people to sue her over her essential new book Not On My Watch:  How a renegade whale biologist took on governments and industry to save wild salmon.

“The salmon farming industry is harming wild salmon, is harming whales, is causing algae blooms and really needs to be controlled.”

Skaana shares stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

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Significant Quotes:

“The salmon farming industry is harming wild salmon, is harming whales, is causing algae blooms and really needs to be controlled. I mean, at first I thought they just had to get off the wild salmon migration routes, but now I realize they just have to get out of the ocean completely, and if they want to continue, build a tank and get in it and operate from there.”(8:18)


“Doing all this damage was part of how they were making such a phenomenal amount of money. It’s really insidious.” (12:38)


“I cannot believe I have spent my whole adult life fighting salmon farms. It just seems ridiculous. But when I look at it from a global perspective I realize I’m part of a huge army across the planet that is trying to protect life on earth.” (12:55)


“When you have a corporation involved, they don’t really care how many fish there are. They just want that share price to go up. And so this is deadly, because it really is a cancer model. They need to grow, they need to grow, they need to grow, with no mind to the fact that they’re killing the very body that they’re in, which in this case is the ocean. I mean, they’re going to kill themselves off. They are killing themselves off in the process of following their business plan. It’s really deranged. It doesn’t make sense and it has to stop.”  (15:31)


“Nobody wants to buy fish that have killed off whales, never mind everything else.” (19:00)

 

“There’s nobody whose position in DFO is the health of wild salmon. There’s no director of wild salmon.” (24:48)


“We have the biggest salmon run in the world on the verge of extinction.” (29:29)


“I saw grizzly bears that no longer looked like Grizzly bears… they were emaciated.” (33:14)


Alexandra: I have to wonder at some level in government are people saying, “Oh my God, those fish… What?!  They’re still coming back? There’s still 20 of them?! Gosh darn it.” I don’t know. I don’t think people, I don’t think some level of government wants wild salmon at all.

Mark: That just gave me chills because I found myself asking the same question about the Southern residents.

Alexandra: I bet you do. Yep..

Mark: I feel like there are people in the federal government, you are going “Damn, there’s still 74 of them…. “

Alexandra: Yeah, and they’re having babies. ” (36:07)


“The salmon actually have the whole mating thing down. They can handle that.”  (42:30)


“And for the first time last spring, I set my big net and pulled it in and looked at the fish and, oh my gosh, they were fat and sassy. They were sparkly, blues and silvers, deep jet black eyes, not the cloudy film they get when they go by the farms and it was a feeling in my heart that I just really had to sort of stand back a minute and be like, what is that feeling? It was joy. It felt like my heart was ringing.” (48:00)

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launch of Operation Virus Hunter

Launch of Operation Virus Hunter (2016) Photo credits: Mark Leiren-Young

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Alexandra Morton – introduction
  • 1:40Mark’s welcome
  • 6:30Alexandra’s new book, “Not on My Watch
  • 8:18– “The salmon farming industry is harming wild salmon, is harming whales, is causing algae blooms and really needs to be controlled. I mean, at first I thought they just had to get off the wild salmon migration routes, but now I realize they just have to get out of the ocean completely, and if they want to continue, build a tank and get in it and operate from there.”
  • 9:37– The impact of fish farms
  • 12:38– “Doing all this damage was part of how they were making such a phenomenal amount of money. It’s really insidious.”
  • 14:33– Alexandra’s political adventure – running for the BC Green party
  • 15:31– “When you have a corporation involved, they don’t really care how many fish there are. They just want that share price to go up. And so this is deadly, because it really is a cancer model. They need to grow, they need to grow, they need to grow, with no mind to the fact that they’re killing the very body that they’re in, which in this case is the ocean. I mean, they’re going to kill themselves off. They are killing themselves off in the process of following their business plan. It’s really deranged. It doesn’t make sense and it has to stop.”
  • 19:00– “Nobody wants to buy fish that have killed off whales, never mind everything else.”
  • 22:14– Mark and Alexandra discuss their adventures with Canada’s Department of Fisheries and Oceans
  • 24:48– “There’s nobody whose position in DFO is the health of wild salmon. There’s no director of wild salmon.”
  • 29:29– “We have the biggest salmon run in the world on the verge of extinction.”
  • 33:14– “I saw grizzly bears that no longer looked like Grizzly bears… they were emaciated.”
  • 36:07– “Alexandra: I have to wonder at some level in government are people saying, “Oh my God, those fish… What?!  They’re still coming back? There’s still 20 of them?! Gosh darn it.” I don’t know. I don’t think people, I don’t think some level of government wants wild salmon at all. Mark: That just gave me chills because I found myself asking the same question about the Southern residents. Alexandra: I bet you do. Yep.. Mark: I feel like there are people in the federal government, you are going “Damn, there’s still 74 of them…. ” Alexandra: Yeah, and they’re having babies. “
  • 42:30– “The salmon actually have the whole mating thing down. They can handle that.” 
  • 42:35– Wild salmon breeding
  • 48:00– “And for the first time last spring, I set my big net and pulled it in and looked at the fish and, oh my gosh, they were fat and sassy. They were sparkly, blues and silvers, deep jet black eyes, not the cloudy film they get when they go by the farms and it was a feeling in my heart that I just really had to sort of stand back a minute and be like, what is that feeling? It was joy. It felt like my heart was ringing.”
  • 50:21– Mark’s conclusion

Carl Safina (@carlsafina) author of Becoming Wild: How Animal Cultures Raise Families, Create Beauty, and Achieve Peace talks about the culture of animals, the worlds of whale and sharing the planet -with @Skaanapod host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Information on Carl Safina

Books on Amazon

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Music:

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 03:40– How Carl Safina is doing and where he’s at in the world of COVID.
  • 08:27– Discussing his latest book Becoming Wild and cultures in other animal species.
  • 11:12– “There are only two animals in the world who are currently known, who are able to tell when they are meeting a complete stranger.”
  • 16:07– What exactly is culture?
  • 22:48– Discussing the complexities of Orca communication and the mystery of their “sound making”.
  • 31:06– Animals and careers? “What else do animals do besides make a living?”
  • 35:53– Carl Safina’s least favourite whale names.
  • 45:20– Discussing Tahlequah and her tour of grief. The affect she had on the world.
  • 49:00– “In law, the only living thing that cannot be legally owned…is a human being.” Discussing animals and personhood.
  • 56:47– The Safina Centre and their mission.
  • 1:04:15– “Feather, Fur & Fin” by Danny Michel

Skaana guests Erich Hoyt, Robbie Bond, Joel Bakan, Carl Safina, Julia Barnes, Marc Bekoff & the Skaana team share our wishes for a very new New Year in 2021.

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Books on Amazon

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Song Information

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 2:34– Wishes for 2021 from our guests and the Skaana team
  • 12:25– A big thanks to all our Patreon supporters
  • 16:12– Info on our SOCAN license and Mark’s farewell to 2020

Skaana (Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young shares stories from the audio version of his award-winning book for orca lovers of all ages – Orcas Everywhere: The Mystery and History of Killer Whales (orcaseverywhere.com). “This inviting book will be treasured by kids – a fun way to discover orcas and the sea.” Erich Hoyt, author of Orca: The Whale Called Killer. An amazingly accessible and fun book that explores our relationship with whales over millennia.” Elizabeth May former leader of The Green Party of Canada.

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Books on Amazon

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· The Killer Whale Who Changed the World  

· Orcas Everywhere

Support Local Anxiety

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 2:40– “Orca Love” from Orcas Everywhere
  • 8:00– Thank you and happy holidays from Skaana
  • 10:23– “Oh Christmas Tree, Eco Christmas Tree” by Local Anxiety

Global fisheries expert Daniel Pauly (@SeaAroundUs) on illegal fisheries, vanishing fish and the fight to save BC’s salmon with @Skaanapod host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Image credit: Ms.Valentina Ruiz-Leotaud

More Information About Daniel Pauly

Books on Amazon

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· The Killer Whale Who Changed the World  

· Orcas Everywhere

Music: 

  1. “Skana” – Leah Abramson https://youtu.be/CQr5BHW0k44
  2. Leah Abramson’s Website: http://www.leahabramson.com/

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 5:38– Defining “Shifting Baselines”
  • 9:14– “The main reason why we need to study fisheries globally is because studying them at a local level doesn’t capture the dynamics…All the fish move, they don’t know borders.”
  • 11:46– The globalization of fisheries and outsourcing to meet fish consumption.
  • 14:15– What fish should we eat? And who’s fish are we eating?
  • 20:12– The status of fish as meat and the role they play in our diets.
  • 20:25– Fish were viewed as a package of healthy meat and not wild animals capable of feeling, capable of agency.
  • 22:10– Do fish feel pain?
  • 27:34– “The implication of our treatment of animals, the mass slaughtering of whales for example, is too horrible to contemplate. And so, we have coping mechanisms and denial is one of them.”
  • 31:04– Japan and whaling.
  • 34:00– On the Aquacolypse
  • 36:08– Discussing fish stocks and biomass.
  • 38:26– Canada’s errors in managing fish populations.
  • 40:47– Bureaucracy, the DFO, and the politics of fisheries.
  • 42:10– (In Canada) fish are seen as a commodity, rather than animals that can go extinct
  • 44:35– Discussing the work of Alexandra Morton and her struggle to reveal the failures of the DFO.
  • 52:03– “I think that the DFO has a two-fold mission that should never be imposed, on an agency. They have to both promote and control the aquaculture. And you can’t do both.”
  • 54:04– Discussing FishBase and the thousands of fish that have been catalogued there.
  • 59:28– Daniel Pauly’s childhood and his journey to becoming the world’s leading ichthyologist.
  • 1:04:49– “I’s the B’y” Performed by Great Big Sea

 

Michael Moore (@MMFlint) on Canada, inspiration and capitalism in this flashback interview from the start of the Obama era with Skaana (@skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung). 

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Support Michael Moore:

Books on Amazon

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

· The Killer Whale Who Changed the World  

· Orcas Everywhere

Music:

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 3:16– Sitting down for a slice of pizza with Michael Moore.
  • 4:48– “I’m inspired by a lot of things and I see a lot of good that’s going on.”
  • 5:51– The value of people’s work.
  • 7:00– “If I’m a citizen of a democracy, it means I’m a political activist automatically.”
  • 7:46– The power of movies and how they should be seen.
  • 10:21– What he wants Americans to do.
  • 12:09– Is he scared of haters?
  • 16:30– How he keeps his sense of humour or, since he’s American, sense of humour.
  • 17:20– His Canadian content.
  • 21:18– “Land of Greed” by Miss Emily

In this episode, iconic orca mom, Tahlequah, talks to host Mark Leiren-Young about the upcoming US elections and what life is like for a whale in the Trump-era.

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Check out this special video content we made to go along with the episode:

https://youtu.be/huJQXz_fj9c 

USA Voter Information: https://www.usa.gov/voting

And if you’d like to know which policies are worrying us — and Tahlequah…

Books on Amazon

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

· The Killer Whale Who Changed the World  

· Orcas Everywhere

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 0:45– Interview with Tahlequah
  • 1:10– Tahlequah’s thoughts on off-shore drilling
  • 1:27– Who Tahlequah is voting for
  • 2:13– Where you can find information on how to vote
  • 2:40– One last word from Tahlequah

Anthropologist/author Wade Davis (@authorwadedavis) on optimism, decency, public service and saving America with Skaana (@skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung). Part two of our special two-part election edition of Skaana featuring National Geographic’s Explorer-in-Residence and author of Magdalena: River of Dreams.

“Whatever happens in November, it won’t mean the end of this incredible schism between the two halves of the American reality.” – Wade Davis

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

For more about Wade Davis and his work:

USA Voter Information: https://www.usa.gov/voting

Books on Amazon

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 Music:

Wille Thrasher- “Wolves Don’t Live By the Rules”

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 04:29– How Wade Davis maintains hope
  • 05:08– “I’m always optimistic because I think pessimism is an indulgence.”
  • 06:22– Discussing the American military
  • 08:05– Factual divisions in America and the role of media
  • 10:17– “The end of America, the unraveling of America is no time to gloat. It’s no time for celebration. You should always remember that the military and industrial might of America literally saved civilization in the lifetime of my father.”
  • 13:26– Discussing gun control
  • 17:06– “America always swings between the wild extremes of the human heart and soul and spirit.”
  • 19:31– The evolution of how we consume news reports, and the role this plays.
  • 22:05– The fault in American democracy
  • 24:31– “40% of Americans feel so left out of what America’s become and is becoming that they simply don’t believe what is in front of them. The truth has lost all currency
  • 28:23– Discussing Trump and the environment
  • 30:14– “You know, the deeper thing that COVID has shown us is that we’re biological beings on a living planet.”
  • 34:03 – “You don’t vote your grievances, indulging your own indignations. The vote is something more serious than that. It’s a vote as to the destiny of your country.”
  • 35:56– Discussing rivers being granted personhood status and the river Magdalena
  • 40:27– “We need to change the way that we view our place on the planet. We are not apart from nature. We are a part of nature. And if COVID isn’t going to teach us that, COVID is going to teach us nothing.”
  • 42:38– “Wolves Don’t Live by the Rules” by Willie Thrasher

 

Anthropologist/author Wade Davis @authorwadedavis talks about wading into US politics to warn about the end of the American era & the Trump virus with Skaana (@skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung). A special two-part election edition of Skaana featuring National Geographic’s Explorer in Residence, the real-life Indiana Jones. For links on how/where to vote visit our show notes.

“America was the land of Walt Whitman and the Grateful Dead. Abraham Lincoln couldn’t tell a lie. The current president cannot recognize the truth. If Lincoln called for charity for all and malice toward none, this dark troll of a buffoon advocates malice towards all and charity for none.” -Wade Davis

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

For more about Wade Davis and his work:

USA Voter Information: https://www.usa.gov/voting

Books on Amazon

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

 Music:

Timecodes

  • 0:00– Intro
  • 05:30– Discussing life during the pandemic
  • 07:06– “I travel in pursuit of stories. I’m a storyteller.”
  • 08:30– How the Rolling Stones article took off
  • 10:52– “Holding the mirror” to America’s face to see how far they’ve fallen
  • 13:33– “Every kingdom is born to die.”
  • 15:00 How Wade Davis’s father-in-law almost became Richard Nixon’s Vice President
  • 18:56– “COVID reminds us of a number of things. First of all, we’re living biological beings on a biological planet. Our lives were brought to a standstill by a parasite 10,000 times smaller than a grain of salt that commandeered the mechanisms of reproduction of ourselves. Forcing us to create it, not us.”
  • 20:45– Discussing the US’s WWII production records
  • 22:40– “Since 1970, China’s never been at war and America has never been at peace.”
  • 25:10– America’s income disparity
  • 28:03– I would argue that advocates for a wall are committing treason
  • 28:05– “Treason is also the acts that betrayal the very essence of your own country.”
  • 32:02– When you look at americans who deny the science… until… the fortitude to defeat it…
  • 33:10– Discussing the 2016 election
  • 36:17– That is a psychotic act… ending on chapel of the nation
  • 36:20– Americans viewing the federal government as a core problem
  • 40:00– Wade Davis’s own experience with the Canadian health care system
  • 42:10– Canadian patriotism and what sets Canada apart from the USA
  • 45:23– “Autumn in New York” by Diana Krall

Real-life Marvel superhero 12-year-old Robbie Bond (@Kidsspeak4parks ) talks about founding Kids Speak For Parks, inspiring kids and adults and becoming a Marvel superhero (@Marvel) on Skaana (@skaanapod) with host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

I think that kids can make even more of a difference than adults, because we’re going to be around to experience the consequences so we can be more driven to help change the world.” – Robbie Bond

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Join the Pod…… https://www.patreon.com/skaana

Skaana home….. skaana.org

Skaana on Medium…. https://medium.com/skaana

“Your Magical Week” – meditation with Rayne Benu…. digital-enlightenment.net

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Article and Video Links:

 

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Music:

Author and educator Marc Bekoff talks about animal emotions, his work with Jane Goodall and who you’re eating for dinner with Skaana (@skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

 “It’s a matter of who we eat, not what we eat. Who’s for dinner, not what’s for dinner. It’s the animals who eat the animals, who we keep in cages, who we keep in aquariums… Words matter.” Marc Bekoff

Skaana connects you to stories about oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.

Join the Pod…… https://www.patreon.com/skaana

Skaana home….. skaana.org

“Your Magical Week” – meditation with Rayne Benu…. digital-enlightenment.net

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Twitter…………… https://twitter.com/skaanapod

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Support Marc Bekoff

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Music: